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Forum Transcript Archives

Plant Propagation and Seed Starting Forum
January 19, 2002
Moderated by Richard Akers

Ginny
subject: Perennials

I was looking for some perennials to start from seed now that will bloom this year in zone6?

Richard

There are quite a few that will bloom the first year if given an early start. Many composites (daisy family) will do so -- coreopsis, gaillardia, shastas,
catananche, tanacetum, achillea etc.

Heuchera, delphinium, many dianthus, gaura, lavender, malva, nepeta, many poppies, salvias and perennial verbenas will also bloom.


Joaniesgarden at: 01.19.2002 10:38
subject: Campanulas (zone 5)

Out of all the Campanulas (and I know there are many!)
Could you tell me which cultivars would bloom if I started them from seed this early spring? I'm a little confused by the biennial types. I know most biennials are started in the late summer for foliage and then bloom in the spring or later the following year. Question is, do I buy the biennial plants and start from seed the ones that bloom the first year?

Richard

I've had C trachelium, C. persicifolia (spotty), C. primulloides, C carpatica, C cochleariifolia, and C. rotundifolia bloom the first year, but most are still best with a year under their belt.

Adenophoras, which are so closely aligned with campanula as to be indistinguishable will generally bloom the first year, and Wahlenbergias, which are their southern hemisphere counterparts will also generally do so. The wahlenbergias wouldn't be hardy for you, though.

For the canterbury bell biennial types, these will sometimes bloom the first year as well, but are better the second.


judi z.
subject: Types of Containers for Seed Starting

Do you favor one over the other? Compressed peat, plastic 6-packs, newspaper pots, those pricey APS systems? Does one prevent damping off, for example, or provide better water retention, than another?

Richard

Damping off has more to do with sterility of the planting medium as well as air circulation between plants than anything else.

As far as water retention, this is also a factor of the medium, itself -- in general, the more peat, the more water is retained, as well as the volume and
shape of the cells/flat. The bigger and deeper, the less they dry out.

I sow most of my seeds directly into 406 trays (406 plugs for each flat of approx 10x 20 inches). larger seeds might go in something a bit bigger. These are pretty small cells and quite a lot per sheet, but they cut easily for smaller amounts. When the seedlings are up and start to get crowded, i then
transplant them into bigger cells or else 4 inch pots. I find these small cells are efficient with space as well as making for easy transplant, since each
seedling is in its own cell as opposed to a community pot.


from: Gripey

Richard, I saw where you talked about medium sterility...how about the containers themselves and how is the best way to obtain it?

Richard

If you are using new plastic, Gripey, you shouldn't have to worry, but if you re-use, it's a good idea to wash them in a little bleach solution first.


from: Joaniesgarden

Out of curiosity, how do you sow in the micro trays? I can't imagine hand seeding over 300 seeds. Is there a machine of some sort that does it, if you want a tray full of the same type plant?

Richard

Big growers who sow flat after flat often use a vacuum type of device where a grid is placed over the flat with corresponding holes for each cell. When the suction is provided, the seeds are held in the little holes with the excess going back into the bag of seeds. When the suction is released, the seeds fall
into the flat.

I use a little hand-held device, though. It has a dome to cover the seeds with a rotating dial that selects an opening according to seed size. When tapped lightly, the seeds then proceed through the opening and down a little chute which is placed over each cell in turn. Time consuming, but better than my clumsy boy fingers.


from: Joaniesgarden
subject: Roses

Is it worth my effort to try and root rose cuttings from grafted roses?

from: Richard

I think so.

I've done both hardwood and softwood cuttings and have had success with both. I like own-root roses to begin with, as I've had far fewer problems with gall, not to mention no suckers to worry about.

I had a good bookmark on rose prop on my old computer, but don't have it handy on this one. I bet if you did a quick search on "Mel Hulse's rose
propagation" you'd probably find it. Good info and very thorough.

from: Joaniesgarden
subject: re:Roses

Yes Richard, very good info- for anyone else interested.....
http://www.ars.org/experts/propagation.html


from: kay at:
subject: stratifying seeds

Thank you, Richard for sharing your expertise. When I stratify seeds (in the fridge) do I simply put the seed packet itself on a back shelf for a few weeks, or should the seeds be in a potting medium?

Richard at:

The majority of seeds needing stratification need to take in some water through the shell of the seed while being refrigerated, so it is best to sow first and then chill. If the seeds are big enough, though, it might be easier as well as taking up less room to wrap them up in a moist paper towel and put in a ziplock.


from: Donna Lockman at:
subject: Growing Roses from

seeds or from hips? Is this possible? A friend said she would bring me some hips from her mother's beautiful rose in Germany. Can this be done? How?

Richard

They can be grown from seed, but the seed collected from her plant will not necessarily recreate the exact rose. It may or may not be similar in many ways, but unless her rose is a species, the only way to really guarantee getting the same rose is through cuttings.

If you do want to try the seed, though, you will need to make sure the seeds are properly ripe. In cooler summer areas it can take a while for the seeds to
ripen, and usually only seeds from the first flush of bloom get there.


from: Gripey
subject: Fertilizing Seedlings

Richard, when (and if) do you recommend fertilizing seedlings and what would you recommend using?

Richard

I usually start when they have a couple of sets of true leaves and then use a liquid at low strength. About half strength for the first couple of feedings and then full after that. I like Peters, but miracle Grow and anything similar is just fine. If you already have a balanced liquid type fertilizer, I sure wouldn't go out and get something new.


from: gdngfool
subject: PNW Best Seed Sources

Wondering what sources you think are best for growing perennials in the PNW. Would like some exotic varieties too.

Richard

My two favorite seed sources are both British, or were you looking for an actual source here in the pnw?

Chilterns and Plantworld are my two favorites, though, and the service on both gets the seeds to your door in a very reasonable time. Chilterns has a wide range of everything with wonderfully quaint plant descriptions, but no photos, while Plantworld specializes in perennials that are mostly out of the ordinary and has an illustrated catalogue.


from: gdngfool
subject: Standard flourescent lights for seed starting?

Just changed most of the lights in my house to fluorescents. Wondering if these lights would promote seed growth if the germinating seed trays are let on top of the cabinets, about eighteen inches under three recessed lights. *Warning: am a failed in-the-house seed starter. It's very dark in here and only get eastern light overhead*

Richard

Sounds like you might end up with some stretched seedlings at 18 inches -- especially if its warm on top of the cabinet.

Do you have a basement? One of the advantages of growing seedlings on in a cooler location is that they stay a little tighter in growth. You need a light
set-up, of course. but if you can place the fluorescents right above the seedlings and keep the temperatures down a bit, you end up with better plants.

from: Gripey
subject: re:Standard flourescent lights for seed starting?

Do you have a suggested temp once you get the seeds up and going?

Richard

That can depend quite a bit on the plants, Gripey, but most perennials are quite happy at around 60, with some liking it a bit cooler than that . Warm season annuals like petunias, marigolds, tomatoes and such like it much warmer, though.


from: Tina
subject: Stubborn Hydrangea Propagation

I have a lacecap hydrangea that I would like to take a few cuttings from for friends. I keep hearing how simple it is to root hydrangeas but I've had terrible luck with it (only one successful root -- and I think that was accidental). Any tips? Should I start in the spring, perhaps?

I think in the past I've waited too late into the summer months. TIA!

z8/western WA

Richard

Any time the plants are actively growing usually works on Hydrangeas, and it helps to take them from robust parent plants in good health. Since they have those big leaves, though, they lose a lot of moisture through transpiration, so the cuttings can dessicate if not misted frequently enough. I usually cut the leaves in half before striking, as this cuts down on surface area.

If you've been having trouble with cuttings, why not try layering? All you have to do is see that a branch is in contact with the ground and voila! Maybe she'd let you find a couple of lower branches and peg them.


from: Joaniesgarden
subject: Sweet leaf Stevia

One package from Burpee contains only 15 seeds. I've never grown them before and have no idea how big the seeds will be. Have any info on how big the seed are and what they require (light/darkness) growing requirements?

Richard

They are not big by any means, but you should be able to handle them individually. You do want to give them a fair bit of heat -- 75-80 or so, so it may be a bit tougher in a basement that is cool. They don't need light to my knowledge.


from: Tina
subject: Nicotiana Sylvestris

Richard, I recently received some nicotiana sylvestris seeds from a friend. The first time I sowed what I thought was sylvestris I started them in flats. After that the plant self-sowed nicely. I'm wondering if it would be better to start them indoors right now or wait until March/April and direct sow them.

z8/western wa

Richard

I like direct sowing for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that you don't have to worry about spindly seedlings de to low light or fuss with
hardening off/transplant shock or any of that.


from: h2o
subject: Preventing mold from developing on presoaked seeds...

In the past I've pre-soaked my daylily seeds for 3-4 days before starting to germinate them. Last year for whatever reason I had left a bunch of volunteer seeds soaking for about 15 days. Well the seeds that I soaked for 15 days germinated a lot faster than the seeds soaked for less time. However, some of the seeds that had soaked for that longer period got a moldy whitish fuzz on them and I had to toss them out. So my question is "What can I do to prevent this mold from forming on the seeds that I soak for a longer period" (I don't want to lose any potential seedlings from my known crosses). I would like to give all of my daylily seeds a longer soaking period.

Richard

Most of the commercial growers just refrigerate their seeds along with some moistened paper towel for a few weeks prior to sowing, and add some antifungal agent to the water in which they soak the towel. If you soak them in water for longer periods, you would probably need to do something similar and use a fungicide before planting.


from: DicentraL
subject: re:Preventing mold from developing on presoaked seeds...

Have a vague recollection that paper toweling itself suppresses or retards molds and fungi. Something about the paper-making process, perhaps?

Richard

Interesting -- must be something in the pulping, I would think.


from: gdngfool
subject: Brugmansia cuttings rooted in water

Received brug cuttings as a Christmas gift, and they've sprouted some formidable white roots. When should I pot them? Should the roots be a certain length? The cuttings themselves are about fourteen inches long. What soil mix is best for brugs? Any special care they need prior to putting them outside in spring?

Richard

AS long as they have roots, you can go ahead and pot them any time. Any regular soilless mix should be fine, but try to give them as much light as you can and keep them on the dry side until you can put them outside. They can grow like gangbusters, so you may end up repotting them come spring. That little cutting can easily hit 5 feet by summer.

from: gdngfool
subject: Thanks...one more brug question...

Should I fertilize them like any other seedlings? With low dosages of liquid fertilizer like fish emulsion?

Richard

Sure -- they like to be fed, too. You might want to switch to something higher in p & k later on as they get closer to blooming, though.


from: Joaniesgarden
subject: Old seed.......

A friend gave me a box of old seed: pansies, periwinkle, dusty miller, most are annuals. Most of the packages are marked 1997. Do you think they would have any life left in them? (or are they just compost?) Not sure where they were stored?

Richard

Seeds can very so much in viability in relation to time stored that it can be really tough to generalize. They might fail to germinate at all or else germinate weakly and be more prone to post germination problems, or they might be little champs and shrug off their age like nothing at all.

I'd give them a shot, anyway. Most annuals germinate quickly enough that you would still have time to replace them in the event they didn't pop.

from: kay
subject: re:Old seed.......

joanie, I test seed viability by placing 10 or so seeds on a dampened paper towel, enclose it in a ziploc bag, and keep it on top of the fridge(nice and warm there)for about two weeks. if most of the seeds sprout by then, I figure the whole packet is worth trying.


from: samjuan
subject: 'Nuther Brug question

Mine is in a 20" pot. It didn't do much last year and I didn't cut it down. It is now in the warm, bright sun room. It's about 5' tall and has large leaves and coming leaves on 2 tall stems and several smaller stems. If I were to try to propagate these stems, which ones and how much of a stem should I cut? I have room to put them out in the ground come late spring and can afford to lose them come fall. I can propagate the mother plant every year or take a promising new plant in for prop. purposes.

Richard

You can take cuttings from any of the stems, and if long enough and growing in good health, some might yield multiple cuttings. Just cut right below a node (leaf juncture) into 3-4 inch sections or thereabouts, strip off any lower leaves, and set.

Besides getting some new plants, your parent plant will be pruned back and result in a bushier plant!


from: Sandie
subject: Hardenbergia ?

Hardenbergia - - - - the bluish-purple vine kind. Which blooms in Fall/Winter.

I sadly lost mine last year (suddenly bolted, don't know why) and I don't have any cuttings or seeds, but other vines are around my area. I miss her! A real beauty.

Is it easily propagatable? Cuttings or seeds best to use?

What conditions do I need for the baby plant & when can I put outside in pot, ... then in ground.

Is it OK to plant, against a fence (partly covered with wire to cling to) ... that faces West. Gets AM (light) shade, lots of light, sun from noon-on, evening hot sun, but mild bay-area weather. Zone 14-17 (I forgot).

Richard

Cuttings are probably best as the seeds can be tough to come by and you have the neighbors plants as potential sources. Best time to take the cuttings
is while they are actively growing in spring, and take the cuttings towards the tips of the growing shoots, but not the very most recent. Just about the point
where they just start to firm up is usually best.

Sounds like the spot you have in mind should be fine for growing one.


from: Sandie
subject: Carmel Creeper ?

Can I propagate the plant "Carmel Creeper" from cuttings or air-layering or seed? ( Sorry, I have never learned any botanical names.)

Richard

I've had spotty success with some of the upright ceanothus by taking fall cuttings and just allowing them to root through winter. Probably better to take them in late spring, though, and usually ground covers are pretty easy to root, so the carmel creeper variety should take well.


from: Sandie
subject: Norfolk Pines ?

I have several Norfolk Pine trees in pots. They are 5, 7, & 10 ft. tall. When they lose their branches (either from that branch drying up, or from injury) ... they don't 'ever' grow back!

Can I propagate /(OR stimulate) new branches on the original trunk? Maybe stimulate or foliar feed - a node/ or feed the whole plant/ or graft, or anything ..??? (taking guesses!)

Is there a way to get more branches to grow out of the main trunk of the plant, ...or do I have to propagate a whole new plant somehow, just to get branches?

Richard

Are you talking about the lower branches? I don't know of anything you can do if that's the case, since nothing will encourage them to ever grow back. If the top dies out, they will usually form a new leader, but end up losing their form to the point of being pretty ugly, and you're stuck with not much recourse again.

One thing you might do, though, if it is the lower branches falling resulting in a spindly appearance is to buy a little starter plan -- I've seen them occasionally in 4 inch containers -- and repot it along with the big one so as it grows, it will help fill in the gaps.


from: dabee
subject: Recipe for Seed Starting Soil

I usually spend a fortune on small bags of prepared seed starting soil. Do you have a recipe to share on making your own soil for starting seeds?

Richard

Equal parts sphagnum peat, perlite and coir (that's the shredded coconut fibre) makes an excellent starting mix. If you can't get the coir, then peat/perlite works just fine.


from: Joaniesgarden
subject: Disease resistant hybrid seed

I grow vegetables in an area about 30x25 foot area. I try to plan crop rotation on most things, but it's tough trying to figure out where to put things and not repeat, like peppers and tomatoes are in the same kind of family. I buy hybrid disease resistant seed to help the process. Is there anything else I can do to my soil that will help fight disease? So far, the only thing I've noticed is late blight on the indeterminant tomatoes. (although, this year I'll try some 'decorative' veggies, like colorful Swiss chard in my flower beds) I haven't found tomatoes to be 'decorative enough' to be put out in the front yard

Richard

The fusarium and verticillium wilts that attack those tomatoes and others can be tough to control, since the water molds are in the soil. There are drenches available like ridomil, banrot and subdue, but that would sure blow an organic approach right out of the water. If you can handle a season without planting, putting black plastic over the area can help by heating the soil high enough to kill off some of the fungi.

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