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Forum Transcript Archives

Tending the Soil Forum
January 25, 2003
Moderated by Richard Akers


a.g.

When I plant new plants in the yard, there is always some soil that comes out of the hole that doesn't fit back in. I tend to use that in Outdoor pots. As far as the pots are concerned, what should be added for healthy containers?

RA

Garden soils is usually too heavy for containers, so you do really need to lighten it up. For some plants you run the risk of soil born pathogens, so I wouldn't advise doing this for seeds or plants like Rhodies, azaleas, daphne or any others prone to water molds, but for most plants it should be o.k. Any inorganic amendment like coarse sand, vermiculite or perlite along with an organic component like peat or round bark in more or less equal measure should work fine -- perhaps more of the
coarse stuff if you soil is at all heavy. You want and end product that is friable and drains well.


judi z.

Assuming the soil is basically decent, what annual topdressing care should be taken? What basic soil amendments should be added annually? I topdress with compost, manure (well-aged, of course) and greensand, but I know there are other micronutrients that might be helpful.

RA

I don't think I would advise regular applications of many products without knowing what your soils is already rich and/or deficient in. You can end up playing junior
alchemist if you get going too much, and if you end up with an excess of one nutrient, you can end up tying up others. Even that greensand could gradually build up potassium levels too high over the years, though potassium is very slow to translocate.

Right offhand, though, ytou might add a little gypsum once and a while, or else lime if your soil is acidic.


Donna Lockman

Can someone define green sand? Also I have been told not to add sand to my clay that it will make it harden like cement!?

RA
Greensand is dredged from the ocean floor and then rinsed to remove the salts and is somewhat similar to diatomacious earth. It is rich in potassium silicates as well as other nutrients.

In general, sand added directly to clay and you can end up with something approaching cement unless you have suitable organic matter, in which case it is o.k. If you add lots and lots of the organic matter first, some extra sand is fine.


RoseNC

What about composted cow manure? Can I topdress around plants with that? OR is it better to work it into the soil?

RA

Most plants like manure, but the disolved salts can be a bit much for some that are salt sensitive like ericaceous plants. Depending on its age, it's also good to keep it a bit away from the crowns of the plants, but it's fine as a topdress.


Joaniesgarden


Instead of the standard peat moss as a soil amendment in containers this year I was going to try Coir...I've bought 5 big bricks of it, what do you suggest I mix with it for thirsty containers?

RA

I love coir and find It holds a surprising amount of water -- perhaps not as much as the peat, but without some of the problems associated with peat like the inability of
peat to regain moisture after going dry . If you are really worried about water, you could always add some of those water retaining polymers, but other than that you
should be fine.


judi z.

Home soil testing kits: Are they somewhat accurate? Misleading? Some good, some bad? I haven't had a soil test in some years, leading me to believe it's time. Is it better to send samples to my local county extension agent?

RA

I think it's better to send one in vs. doing a home test. The home kits can be fairly accurate, but won't reveal as much info or be as precise. With either, though, it is
important to take good samples, and make sure you get representative soils. Best to take them from areas not recently fertilized, such as those marginal garden spots.

Donna Lockman (follow-up)

Richard, Say I go out to take a soil sample or two, with trowel and small boxes or bags? Do I just dig a trowel full and place in bag, or do I dig up the area first and
then get a trowel of dirt for the bag?

RA
If it is a regularly maintained garden bed, I'd suggest digging down a few inches rather than using the stuff right off the top, and to do so from a few different areas.
The mulching and fertilizing you have done will affect the surface more than down lower and taking from different areas will even out some of the anomalous readings and give you a better picture.

If this is from an unprepared area, you don't need to be as picky, but it still helps to get different samples.

One thing I didn't mention to Judi, but if you send in a sample rather than home test, you can get recommendations for what to do if something is deficient or out of whack.


Donna Lockman

I dug my daylily bed, added compost and gypsum and then around each plant, I placed a handful of bone meal. I top dress spring with compost and fall with fine mulch. Things do great there. My problem is an iris bed that is so rocky it is like a quarry. I am constantly removing rock from that bed. Iris like drainage and the rocky ground seems to agree with them. The lower part of the bed is so rocky however, that the iris can't walk or multiply easily. I noticed that they are not blooming in that area as much either. Now removing ALL the rock is impossible! But if I dig all the irises and their labels from there and put them in bags in a tub or something...then remove as many rock as I dare! What type soil and additives do I fill in there for the TB irises. There are Tall phlox in back and some purple homestead verbena in front of the irises.

RA
Iris don't need too much organic matter and like a neutral soil, so if you have access to some reasonably good topsoil -- a real sandy loam -- you might be able to give
them enough to get rooted in above and around the rocks. Now, there is sometimes a problem that can occur when you put one type of soil right on top of another in that
water goes through one strata of soil, hits the next and just sits there -- despite the fact that both might be well drained. For this reason, you want to try to blend the new
soil with the old, if just a little bit. Other than that, getting some phosphorous and potassium in there ahead of time helps, since both of these nutrients are very slow to percolate down. I'd avoid manure, too, though something else with nitrogen in modest amounts doesn't hurt. .


Donna Lockman

I have used lime on my lawn to lessen the acidity. I have used sulfur to raise the acidity before planting Rhododendron/Azalea and Japanese Iris. Do I reapply this yearly or what? And am I adding the best things for the jobs here?

RA

Sulfur and lime are the two usually recommended for altering one way or another, but I don't think you would need annual applications. So much of what you do otherwise tends to affect ph., especially if you use lots of soil amendments, and much depends on the plants you are growing, so it's hard to say without knowing. Here in parts of the the pnw, liming is a regular undertaking since rain leaches so much and we can have such acidic soil, but I would doubt that you would have to do so every year. If you are using both acidifying and alkalizing agents, your soil couldn't be too strong one direction or the other -- probably a little acidic -- and fortunately, a large majority of plants will grow quite happily in a slightly acidic soil.


Joaniesgarden
In past soil tests, my regular garden soil that has not been cultivated is around a pH of 8. My city water is testing alkaline as well.....( I can usually tell by all the heavy
deposits on my aquarium without testing. :-/) I have very pale leaves on things like magnolia and buttonbush and Virginia sweetspire...what can I use to make the soil more acidic and have a lasting effect without reapplying several times a season?

RA

Probably the best thing is lots of organic matter dug into the soil as well as a good mulch. The organic stuff helps buffer, as well as being slightly acidic for the most part depending on composition. Besides using sulfur or aluminum sulfate to intentionally acidify, you will find gypsum helps too along with improving tilth and providing calcium.


Joaniesgarden
Which in your opinion are the best overall slow release fertilizers for container plants? (most things being annuals like petunias)

RA
I like Apex, and I don't know if these are available retail or not, but there are several different formulas with different release rates. They aren't affected by soil moisture,
but do release faster with higher soil temps, so as plants grow faster with warmer weather they get more fertilizer. For annuals, which like lots of fertilizer, this is really
helpful, and you can chose the faster releasing formulas. Better than the one size fits all approach.


Tina

This year I plan on adding soaker hoses to my sunniest beds. I tend to plant things close together and have rarely mulched these beds or had a need to. However I don't want the hoses to be visible. Do you have specific types of mulches you recommend for the on-gardening season that would cover the hoses? The soil is quite good in both these beds.

In other areas during off-gardening season I've used the small wood chips more for appearance then anything and like that they break down quickly into the soil so that by the springtime I can simply work them into the beds. This is the bagged stuff sold at any garden center and I wonder if I could do better off season with a more nutritional type of mulching. Do you see a difference in the properties/benefits of one mulch over another?

RA

Whenver the subject of mulches comes up, people tend to respond based on what they have available where they live, but what matters is what's available where you live. The large majority of commercial mulches here in the pnw use ground fir as a base as well as composted plant material from municipal leaf collection and dropped off yard debris. To these bases, they might add lime, composted mint straw, chicken or cow manure, etc., so there tends to be some differences depending on who's doing it.

You should be able to find some blends where you live that are more nitrogenous than the straight ground bark. Mixes that have some manure in them are very common here, and I'd think they would be available up there too. They would do nicely, if so.


One think about soaker hoses, though, is to not forget to overhead water from time to time in summer. Thrips and mites, especially, can be a big problem where you don't overhead water.


Tina

For those gardeners who have never tested their soil, can you explain the benefits and the best method of sampling? How often should it be done?

RA
It's certainly not the sort of thin you need to do all the time.

As to the benefits, the main one is that you can identify nutrient deficiencies as well as know you p.h. Now, the ph is the western parts of the northwest is usually acidic, and sometimes strongly so, but I doubt where you live that it is so acidic as to be problematical. Most plants are quite happy in a range of soil ph As to nutrients, soils here can be lacking in calcium or phosphorous, for instance, and knowing this before you plant will allow you to incorporate some before you plant.

In most cases, though, I would say that good plant growth is the only indicator that really matters.


Alie

How frequently should one fertilize a vegetable garden? What are the recommended doses? Also, would it be beneficial to fertilize a little more often?

RA
Quite a bit depends on the fertility of your soil and the crop you are growing. In general, you don't want to over-fertilize root crops -- especially with anything high in
nitrogen -- while something like a tomato likes a good amount of feeding. Carrots and onions might do just fine without any additional fertilizer in a good soil, while you
might still want to give those tomatoes a boost. Hard to generalize, but I think the best approach is to watch the growth of your plants and then respond by feeding where leaf color isn't where it should be. As plants approach harvest, though, you want to drop the amount of nitrogen you give them in relation to the other elements.


Cornus

I recently moved from a house that I lived in for 30+ years to a condo...never had problems with my house plants. Since I moved in September, all of my house plants have started to develop a white powdery substance on the surface of the soil. Might you know what's causing this and is it something that I should be concerned about? I know that other residents of this complex complain about the water and I assume there must be something *undesirable* in it.

RA

Yes -- either hard water or fertilizer salts or a combination thereof is the likely cause. Best approach is to flush the salts in your containers periodically by watering heavily until the water really goes completely through the mix.


Alie

Richard, I heard somewhere that it is better to add compost to the flower garden in the fall. Can it be added in the spring and also in the summer? Also, should the compost be mixed with peat or other medium?

RA

You can dig in compost any time if it is well aged and nicely decomposed and your soil isn't too wet to dig. You don't need to mix in any peat, but doing so is fine. If you
want to use it as a mulch, though, one reason you might want to wait a bit in spring is to allow the soil to warm up. Placing a thick mulch on a cold soil in early spring
will delay its warming.

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